THE SHOW
What happens when you build the company of your dreams, only to realize the dream came with tradeoffs you didn’t see coming? In this candid conversation, Rand Fishkin — cofounder of Moz and SparkToro — shares the pivotal moments that shaped his career: turning a $39 side experiment into a multimillion-dollar SaaS, raising venture capital for the wrong reasons, walking away from a $40M acquisition offer, and rebuilding his identity after leaving the company he founded.
Along the way, Rand unpacks the philosophy he lives by now: designing work around the life you want, not the other way around. You’ll learn why audience-first growth changes everything, how “dark social” can reshape your marketing strategy, and why the best companies aren’t built on hustle, but on thoughtful design.
If you’ve ever wrestled with status anxiety, questioned the pace you’re working at, or wondered what it would look like to run a business without burning yourself out, this episode will give you fresh perspectives and actionable ideas for building something that lasts — without losing yourself in the process.
BEHIND HIS BRILLIANCE: Empathy
THE GUEST
RAND FISHKIN | CEO, SPARKTORO + AUTHOR, LOST AND FOUNDER
Rand Fishkin is cofounder and CEO of SparkToro, makers of fine audience research software, and indie game developer Snackbar Studio. He’s dedicated his professional life to helping people do better marketing through his writing, videos, speaking, and his book, Lost and Founder. When Rand’s not working, he’s usually cooking a fancy meal for the love of his life, author Geraldine DeRuiter.
Rand was previously the cofounder of Moz, and Inbound.org, and a co-author on The Art of SEO. He’s keynoted over 100 events around the world on marketing, technology, and startup topics.
TOPICS COVERED
· Status is a poor reason to raise capital – chasing external validation through VC can distort decision-making and undermine founder well-being.
· Audience-first beats product-first – building trust and reach before launching a product creates built-in marketing and faster adoption.
· Design trumps grind – thoughtful business and life design leads to better decisions, fewer hours, and more sustainable success than relentless hustle.
· Identity can’t be tied to one venture – detaching self-worth from your company enables resilience when endings or pivots come.
· Opportunity cost is real – turning down an offer (even for the “right” reasons at the time) can shape the trajectory of both the business and your personal life.
· Measure what matters, not what’s easy – “dark social” means a lot of word-of-mouth and share-driven traffic won’t show up in analytics the way you expect.
· Life design is part of business design – integrating personal goals, health, and relationships into work choices leads to richer, more fulfilling outcomes.
THINGS MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Tomorrow Tomorrow and Tomorrow by Gabrielle Zevin (book pick)
Circe by Madeline Miller (book pick)
No Hard Feelings by Liz Fosslien and Mollie West Duffy (book pick)
Big Feelings by Liz Fosslien and Mollie West Duff (book pick)
